Sykes' "Local Records" pub. 1833 gives the following snippet in an account of the siege and surrender of the Toon to the Scots in 1644...."The General of the Scottish Army threatened Sir John Marley (the Mayor),that if the town was not delivered up, they would direct their cannon so as to demolish the beautiful steeple of St Nicholas. The Mayor instantly ordered the chief of the Scottish prisoners to be taken to the top of the tower, below the lantern, and returned him an answer, that if that structure fell it should not fall alone, as their countrymen were placed in it with a view either to preserve it from ruin or be destroyed with it: this had the desired effect."
Newcastle relegated and Celtic losing the Scottish title to Rangers on the same afternoon - it's been a disappointing day...
1569,I love reading about the siegeof 1644. The cracks in the tower of St Andrew`s, Newgate St are still visible caused by the artillery set up in the tower to fire at the Scots camped where the football ground is. Also I enjoy reading about the large number of papists in the Duke of Newcastle`s Whitecoats who fought so bravely at Marston Moor.
Sorry that should be Marquis of Newcastle: he became a duke later.
Private Eye has a section entitled "Pedantry Corner". This is yours, Father.According to Burke's Peerage, 1896 ed., Theophilus, the 4th EARL of Newcastle, "was a staunch supporter of the Royal Cause in the Civil War,and lived to see the restoration of the Monarchy, and performed the office of Carver at the Coronation of Charles 11. He died in 1667."The Earldom was created in 1572, and the Dukedom (incidentally of Newcastle Under Lyme) in 1756.Theophilus (what a fine Greek name) fought at Marston Moor, and came under some (unwarranted)criticism for "abandoning" the North.I can't stand these pedants!
The Toon going Doon...We two girls have had a sinking feeling for some time (signed) Lucy Tania Mandy Life-Boetz
1569, I had my doubts about the Marquis bit as I don`t ever remember him having that title and thougt it was Duke or Earl. If I had pushed my chair back to my bookcase instead of using Google I would have avoided the mistake. To be honest I always knew his title was nothing to do with the Newcastle on Tyneside but another. I`m now going to move my chair in the direction of my books and look it all up.I used to have a monograph and the regiment and its papalist contingent but haven`t seen it lately.
1569 I found this which seems believeable but is confusing on the Tyne/Lyne/Lyme aspect.The earliest Newcastle title was held by Ludovic Stuart, Duke of Richmond (c.1574-1624). He was also Duke of Lennox (a Scottish title) and in May 1623 was created Earl of Newcastle-upon-Tyne and Duke of Richmond in the English Peerage by Charles I. He died in February 1624 without legitimate heirs and his English titles became extinct. The title was revived in 1628 when William Cavendish, Viscount Mansfield was created Earl of Newcastle upon Tyne by Charles I. In 1643 William was raised to become Marquess of Newcastle upon Tyne, and finally, in 1665, he was created Duke of Newcastle upon Tyne. The title became extinct in 1691 with the death of his son, Henry Cavendish, the 2nd Duke. In 1694 it was recreated, this time for John Holles, 4th Earl of Clare, who had married his cousin, Margaret, the 2nd Duke's daughter. Unfortunately, however, on John's death the title died out once again. A further recreation in 1715 meant that John's nephew, Thomas Pelham-Holles became the 4th Duke of Newcastle upon Tyne. With Thomas also having no male heirs, the title was in danger of extinction once again. To counter this, in 1756, Thomas was also created Duke of Newcastle under Lyne (or Line). This title had a special remainder which enabled it to be inherited by his nephew. As a result, when Thomas died in 1768 the title Newcastle upon Tyne died with him, but the title Newcastle under Lyne was inherited by Henry Pelham-Clinton, Earl of Lincoln, who became the 2nd Duke. From that point onwards, inheritance of the title proceeded uneventfully down the male line.The title 'Newcastle under Lyne' is sometimes a cause for confusion - the spelling Lyme is much more familiar, having crept into common usage during the 20th century. However, it is the spelling Lyne or Line which is the form of the title used in the original patent, and which is used in G.E. Cockayne's Complete Peerage. Family documents also use the spelling Lyne, at least until the 19th century when they began referring to themselves simply as the 'Dukes of Newcastle' - probably because the title had descended beyond the 4th Duke, and there was no longer any need to differentiate between the two forms of the title. It is interesting that in the early 20th century, newspaper articles were still referring to the 'Dukes of Newcastle under Lyne'. The Lyme spelling seems to have emerged from Burke's Peerage, which had adopted this form of the title by the late 19th century.From: http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/mss/collections/family-estate/collections/newcastle/biog-family.phtml
Father, I must admit that I did find the reference in Burke's very confusing. There is no reference whatever to the earlier creation, and I only hope that the Theophilus I mentioned is actually the hero of Marston Moor. You have sewn a doubt in my mind, so I shall go back to Burke's with a clearer head in the morning, and cross check that entry with Burke's Extinct Peerage, copy in the Lit & Phil.I think we both deserve a place in Pedants' Corner, but it is interesting.I wonder who Lucy Tania and her friend Mandy are, I am all at sea on that one.
How ironic (or I suppose appropriate) that Newcastle's relegation fate was sealed with an own goal.
"the Lit & Phil."The place where all knowledge resides in the North-east. Except a decent theological section...
Augustine..Yes, you are correct of course, but the founding fathers in the late 18th century were non-conformist clergymen, among others. For all that, it is the best haven of peace, calm and comfort in the CityThey do have 2 copies of the Liber Usualis, so it cannot be all bad.
Not all good, either: I see that it also takes The Tablet as one of the periodicals on offer!
Canny Lad,That is a bitter pill to swallow. I have also seen copies of the New Statesman and the Guardian there, enough for me to choke on my coffee and biscuits. I believe a copy of the Guardian is delivered in my street, I should seriously think of moving. I also know of a Catholic Church north of the Tyne that has the Pill on sale.I still am intrigued at the two ladies who forecast the sinking of the Toon.
My old (as he seemed at the time) headmaster used to say that Guardian readers only looked at the pictures so perhaps it does no real harm for the L & P to take it?
1569 Rising - St Mary's Cathederal also has 'The Pill' on Sale in their Pauline bookshop. I didn't think the Revd Dean would support such things (possibly the past incumbent...?)
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