The Fathers and other conference members in song after the formal dinner at Ushaw on 22/04/09!
It seems like this LMS event was a poor copy of the wonderful success that were the two Merton conferences. But why? Didn't the LMS Committee object to such elitisim and profligate use of funds? Don't get me wrong - Merton was a resounding success, and Durham may have been also, but what sort of people are the LMS Committee that they will condemn something and then try to recreate it?
Not so sure about a poor copy. Fr Dickson who was at Merton has commented on how Ushaw had cerain advanages such as the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, altars for Low Mass on site and good car parking facilities. As for the rest I`m not qualified to answer.
Is that the first time "God Bless our Pope" has been sung in the Prof's Parlour since 1970?
I think Anonymous needs to be rather more specific, especially for the benefit of those who are not up to date with the changes at the LMS. Is Anonymous saying that Durham was elitist and too expensive or is he commenting on the two Merton conferences which, I am led to believe, were far more more expensive that Ushaw. I can't comment about the charge of elitism at either venue but I suppose that all priests gatherings are to some extent elitist.
Great singing, Father. Hope the roof stayed on!! I was amused at the beginning of the recording, which starts with the tail-end of the verse (dropped from hymnals since about 1940s, I believe) about the 'magic wire'! Makes a huge change from the magic circle. Sign of the times, I suppose, that the words need to be available on sheets - some of us 'pious anoraks' still know it by heart (and both tunes!).Glad the Conference went so well. Can't see how anyone could be charged with elitism, simply because the opportunity was made available for priests to learn the Old Mass, as the Holy Father clearly wishes.
Ask David Lloyd and his cronies what elitism means - it's their word and its they that brought the good work of Merton crashing down into ruins! And whilst you're at it, ask him whether he now thinks there is any point in having high Masses & ployphonic choirs &c - that, apparently, was also an element of Merton's over the top extravagance!
It does seem difficult to get a polite, let alone a sensible, response from Anonymous. Whats all this about?
While I do not feel ualified to comment on the Merton conference which I have never attended, I still feel obliged to defend the Ushaw event.Firstly, dear Anonymous, allow me to point out that when one makes certain accusations or derogatory comments like you do, and serious ones at that, one should have enough 'balls' to undersign them with their own name.Secondly, should you not be happy that a second conference has been organised? After all, the more priests know and learn and appreciate the EF Mass, surely the better for the whole Church, no? And the remark about the Ushaw event sending the Merton one to ruin, in addition to being a massive exaggeration, simply smack of sectarian envy that people here in the North have also been able to organise something decent.Thirdly - how was Ushaw elitist? Anyone could attend. Most priests who did attend were actually from OUTSIDE of our diocese and ALL services, even compline, were OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. I attended the conference even though I am not a priest. And with regards to it being expensive - for goodness sake, 80 pound or so is really reasonable for a 3 night stay plus 3 meals (incl. 2 hot meals and plenty of dishes to choose from) and the materials - I believe that each priest got a brand new 1962 Missal and a booklet with all the services printed in it.And the conference itself - saying that it was a poor copy of anything is an insut to the great job done by Paul who'd organised it, by our schola (the lads sung 3-4 services a day), by our priests who altogether said probably more than 10 Masses a day, by Fr Tim who was an excellent sacristan, by Peter who played the organ at every service, by altar servers... I shall make a point of going to Merton though, now that you have vilified Ushaw perhaps I will go to the fountain of truth and see how the conference should be done if Ushaw was a poor copy.
Servus Altaris, Anonymous` gripe is that the LMS have stopped the Merton conference choosing instead to have two annual conferences, one for the north and one for the south. The southern one will take place in August (24th-28th) at London Colney in the diocese of Westminster. The reason for moving from Merton is something I don`t feel qualified to speak about but the LMS` commitment to running priests` training conferences remains. Much of the anger about the move from Merton comes from clergy in the south who were the ones asked to do the training so it will be interesting to see how London Colney works out.
Servus Altaris: put your name up if you want to complain that others don't. But if the blog owner allows it, it is allowed.Fr Brown: Anonymous' gripe is not anything other than the sheer hypocracy of those members of the LMS Committee and staff who complained so bitterly about all the things that made Merton so great and who, having cried wolf and removed those responsible for the successes of Merton, have the cheek to repeat practically every detail of Merton with apparent impunity. Let the LMS Committee members and staff who complained that polyphany, wine at meals, giving priests a free Missale Romanum, altar cards, having High Mass, etc., etc., ad nauseam, were innapropriate, examine their consciences. If anyone doesn't have a clue about this, look up David Lloyd's letter on the Holy Smoke blog.
Anonymous comments are allowed. Personal abuse is not. (Not that you are guilty of that Anonymous.)Wine at meals would have been nice although we did have wone at the formal dinner.I understand that there is great hurt over what happened at Merton. I only hope that someone can manage to restore unity and that we can work for what is most important which is the advancement of Summorum Pontificum.
Having attended the Ushaw conference and the CIEL conference at Oxford (also held at Merton) I think I can see what the problems with Merton were.Merton chapel might be wonderful but the college does not have the facilities easily accessible on site. With so many priests having to say their daily Masses the lack of altars was a real issue at Merton - with many priests having to go to the Oxford Oratory to say Mass. Ushaw on the other hand has at least twelve altars and everything is all under one roof (accommodation, lecture halls, dining facilities, etc).More importantly Ushaw is a Catholic institution and one that is controlled by the bishops. What greater sign of the traditional Mass becoming (albeit slowly) a regular part of Catholic life than holding the training conferences in a Catholic establishment. This is not being anti-Anglican as some have stated elsewhere, but that it is inappropriate to use an Anglican chapel when we have Catholic chapels and facilities available to use.The cost is I believe an issue and in my view rightly so. I would much prefer to see the LMS spend money at Ushaw where the profits will be used to maintain the college (and therefore the training of seminarians) than to line the coffers of, the already wealthy, Merton College. When you consider both the exorbitant cost and the lack of facilities and altars at Merton it really is a no brainer.
Merton a "no-brainer"?! Joseph Shaw who has taken over the LMS as Chairman calls the two Merton conferences as a "tremendous success" in a letter dated 24 April 2009 to members who called for the EGM. And by all reports he was one of the ones opposed to their continuation!
Yes they were a great success but that doesn't mean that the LMS has to continue using Merton. The important thing is that the conferences take place - the venue is not the crucial factor. When better venues i.e. Ushaw or London Colney are available the LMS should use them rather than be wedded to Merton just because it used it in the past. I must admit I find this obsession with Merton College from certain quarters a little odd.
There is no obsession with Merton except from the LMS Committee members and employee who have worked to destroy it and to remove those who brought about its success, upon which they now trade.
I fail to see how they are trading upon the success of Merton when the Ushaw conference was planned before the LMS decided against continuing to use Merton. If anything Ushaw built upon the success of Merton it did not trade on it.
Canny Lad, I don`t mind you saying you disagree with someone but it reqiures a bit more than a comment like that. I`d be interested if you would let me know where I have indulged in personal abuse and what I`ve said that could be considered libellous.
Please re-read my comments. They were certainly not meant the way you seem to have read them. Others have certainly indulged in personal abuse (Volpius Leonius' comments in previous posts come readily to mind) and in their comments without knowledge of the facts or any facts have abused members of the LMS Committee. I did not accuse you.
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