Sunday, May 18, 2008

Coming to a seminary near you soon?

I was delighted to see these pictures on the NLM blog today ( I don`t seem to be able to link to individual posts on the NLM any more since they removed their list of recent posts). As is pointed out those receiving Holy Communion are priests and so presumably are members of the seminary staff. How long before we see this in the the UK? these pictures come from St Charles Borromeo seminary in Wynnewood, PA in the USA.












19 comments:

Old Believer said...

In a seminary and they cannot find a deacon and subdeacon to have Solemn Mass? A poor effort indeed.

Fr Michael Brown said...

Old Believer, as usual I agree with you but I think this was a Low Mass. There are more pictures on Flickr here

Simon Platt said...

Perhaps the seminary clergy were not ready to act as sacred ministers for a high mass. Reading between the lines at NLM this seems likely to have been the first traditional mass at which many of them will have assisted. That it has taken place at all seems like a good development to me. Perhaps we shall in future see pictures of solemn masses from this and other seminaries.

Volpius Leonius said...

As long as the current Bishops are in charge we will never see this here, sorry to burst your bubble Father.

gemoftheocean said...

Oh, sure you can link to individual posts there ... see how easy it is? They're just making it a little bit of a pain in the kazoo to do so.

[Hint: Go to "view" in your browser, click "see source code") and you have the page of code ... for quick find of the link hit edit and find in page, and pick a distinctive word -- and you'll see the title of the post, then scroll down a bit and you'll see the name of the article -- it saves an html file with the title you named it -- basically append year and month to the post, the title as spelled and .html -- but of course you can just copy and paste. Child's play.

Fr Michael Brown said...

Steady on Karen: I`ve just learned how to put a link in the comm box. That may take a while to get the hang of and this looks far beyond my competence.

Thanks for the hint. How do people learn to do all this?

old believer said...

A Low Mass - even worse! Low Mass originated as means of satisfying the piety/stipends of priests in the Middle Ages. The substitution of what I would choose to call 'real liturgy' by Low Mass was the major contributing factor in the call for reform of the liturgy. A service read from a book is both boring and aliturgical.

The practice of Low Mass lead, following Pius X's call for active participation, to the Dialogue Mass and increased use of the 'German Mass', i.e. Low Mass with vernacular hymns. Combine that history with the choir ceremonies for Solemn Mass and one ends up with what passes in most parishes as liturgy.

In the contemporary climate surely the liturgy should be celebrated at it was always meant to be (rather than usually was). The Graduale gives a range of tones for the pericopes, collects and other parts of the liturgy so that a 'flatness' of celebration, so common with the four hymn ICEL sandwich, can be avoided. For example a ferial day could have the simplest tone for the collects, epistle and gospel, one cantor as directed in the Graduale and two candlesticks on the altar. For a great feast, such as Corpus Christi and its Octave, the most solemn tones could be used, four cantors, six candlesticks etc. I would have no issue with such non-Tridentine practices as acolytes in tunicles on the greatest days too but appreciate some would.

Good liturgy should appeal to all the senses and indeed research has demonstrated that increased olfactory stimulation actually enhances other senses (c.f. David Torevell's interesting study). If the Roman liturgy had been celebrated as it was originally meant to have been I rather doubt that the twentieth century reforms would have happened.

I can see no excuse whatsoever for Low Mass in a seminary. In the current situation it is not going to win over the maximum number of supporters.

Fr Michael Brown said...

Old Believer I agree that it is not an ideal introduction to the glories of the traditional liturgy. The thing I find with Low Mass is I know that it is hard to defend liturgically and I never encourage the Dialogue Mass but Low Mass does work for many people. A daily sung Mass wouldn`t be possible in a parish. Like it or not the Low Mass, aberration though it be, has been part of our tradition for 1000 years.

However I agree that it is strange that they chose a Low Mass as the way to introduce the seminary to the EF but I`m just glad they are doing it at all.

Volpius Leonius said...

Low Mass works for me, much better than the NO High Mass imo.

old believer said...

Fr. Brown,

I am not so sure that some form of sung liturgy is not possible at parish level. Certainly not some elaborate polyphony but at the minimum level chants could be monotoned or sung to a psalm tone.

Low Mass represents, IMHO, the worst form of minimalism that has blighted Western liturgy for so long.

Volpius Leonius said...

There is nothing minimalist in the church I attend it believe me :)

Fr Michael Brown said...

Volpius I can`t begin to think where that could be.

gemoftheocean said...

Actually, it's easier than learning to do a link in the com box...well you need to know both but since you know how to do the latter the former really is trivial.

Seriously, if you just hit "view" then "view source code" - you'll see what I mean...then just hit "edit" and "find in page" and a little box appears on the bottom left of the window...then type in a word in the article, not something dumb like the word "the" as that will be in every article, but a word in the title of the post you wish to find. Then you'll SEE it and just scroll down a little and you'll have the whole think you can highlight, copy and paste into a link. Really, it takes less than 30 seconds.

I always laugh at sites who think they can "protect" picture etc from being copied. Why do they bother? Alt-printScreen and then open paint and you can Ctrl-V paste and save..then use photoshop to just keep the bit you want. It's enough to make a cat laugh.

Volpius Leonius said...

"Volpius I can`t begin to think where that could be"

ah Father it is a lovely little village church, The Sacred Heart and English Martyrs in Thornley, I dont get there often as it is a bit out of the way, but Mass there is great even if it is a Low Mass, the church is wonderfully decorated :)

Fr Michael Brown said...

Volpius I know it well. It is a beautiful church which has escaped the worst ravages of the iconoclasm. Fr Dickson is doing great work.

Volpius Leonius said...

I cannot argue with that Father :)

Gregor said...

Fr Brown and gemoftheocean,

it's actually even easier to link to individual posts at our site: the date below each post contains a link to that post. Just right click the link and select "copy link" - et voilà.

Fr Michael Brown said...

Thanks Gregor. That is very useful but I would never have known if you hadn`t explained!

Fr Michael Brown said...

Thanks Gregor. That is very useful but I would never have known if you hadn`t explained!