tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35539648.post9115073454642713334..comments2023-10-18T14:53:28.622+01:00Comments on Forest Murmurs: The Washington Post on Music WarsFr Michael Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15320336535138538635noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35539648.post-67593920143723061972008-04-21T10:51:00.000+01:002008-04-21T10:51:00.000+01:00In response to the posts about chant I understand ...In response to the posts about chant I understand that there is an issue about the authenticity of some modern Gregorian chant. The restoration carried out by Solesmes last century was based on a bar by bar analysis of the most commonly occurring phrases. The net result is that in some cases the result bears no relation to what was ever historically sung.<BR/><BR/>When it is sung some of it, one has to say, doesn't sound that edifying - IMHO the tracts for the Mass of the Pre-Sanctified fall into that category. Having watched the excellent series on Sacred Music recently shown on TV a couple of points struck me. The shots of the Palestrina archive included a brief shot a manuscript book of the Roman Psalter by Palestrina although (frustratingly) this was not explored. However it would suggest Palestrina produced settings for some, if not all, of the psalms. Listening to a lot of Palestrina’s simpler settings such as Pange lingua and the Reproaches for the Mass of the Pre-Sanctified one is struck by the fact that they are both simpler than the chant and far more pleasing to hear. The composer took the chant melody and gave it the lightest of harmonic augmentation. I would want to raise the question of what ordinary parish churches did with music when they lacked the resources of Collegiate or Monastic establishments. My hypothesis would be that the chant was sung with a drone and such like with the effect not being dissimilar to some Eastern signing.<BR/><BR/>The other point the excellent series struck a chord with for me (pun intended) was the way liturgy made use of popular culture. I cannot remember the composer but some pre-Trent musician had written a <I>Kyrie</I> based on the tune of a popular folk song which had lyrics about a maiden’s pair of generous assets. Less provocatively Lassus, for example, has given us ‘The Good Wine Mass’ and ‘The Armed Man Mass’ popular themes used to service the liturgy – what we might term inculturation. Of course Trent got a little puritanical about this sort of thing but Charpentier’s Messe de Minuit, a few centuries later, was based on French carols and highly effective.<BR/><BR/>I am afraid I would take a lot of persuading to see the value of said services, to me they are an abuse based on minimalism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35539648.post-12898646623240595652008-04-20T02:06:00.000+01:002008-04-20T02:06:00.000+01:00Father's parishioners want to remember the words o...Father's parishioners want to remember the words of Vatican II on the subject of Church music.<BR/><BR/>"The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy. Therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services." (Sacrosanctum Concilium)<BR/><BR/>and :<BR/><BR/>"The faithful should be able to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them." (Musicam sacram)<BR/><BR/>If that's not plain enough, what about these words :<BR/>"Genuine renewal (in Catholic music) cannot be achieved except by following the great traditions of the past, of Gregorian chant and sacred polyphony." (Pope Benedict XVI, 25 June 2006)<BR/><BR/>No ?<BR/><BR/>What about Jeffrey Tucker's post "Sing a New Song To the Lord" at the New Liturgical Movement blog, 19 April 2008, where he says :<BR/>"What is needed is not dated music, whether old or new, but timeless music."<BR/><BR/>Yes, I know it's an uphill struggle, Father, but keep trying. Please.PeterHWrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08734936083886678494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35539648.post-71654812243125155842008-04-18T18:42:00.000+01:002008-04-18T18:42:00.000+01:00Abolishing said services might be as good a start ...<I>Abolishing said services might be as good a start as any.</I><BR/><BR/>I think that this would do more harm than good. There is nothing worse than Graham Kendrick songs than Gregorian chant being screeched and murdered.<BR/><BR/>There should be certainly a push to make Gregorian chant the norm in the church in England & Wales. Every parish should aim to have a sung mass in chant.Aduliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00534730218402742905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35539648.post-49080733058746224372008-04-18T13:39:00.000+01:002008-04-18T13:39:00.000+01:00A very interesting post.I wonder really if the roo...A very interesting post.<BR/><BR/>I wonder really if the root cause is that Latin rite Catholics simply don't have a sense of Catholic culture?<BR/><BR/>Before the Council sung Masses were far less common than said ones. The latter were, according to theolgical norms, as good as the ones that had music and were over a lot quicker. Likewise any office functions were a rarity with the very occasional parish offering Vespers on a Sunday. Sadly in post-Trent Latin Catholicism there was never a history of widespread and inculturated liturgical music.<BR/><BR/>In contrast in the East, be it Catholic or Orthodox, there are rich traditions of liturgical music that have developed and been maintained over the centuries. The various Eastern European countries all have their own, slightly different, styles of music with some international exchanges taking place.<BR/><BR/>In the West what does one do? I don't have an answer but I think a good starting point is to stop seeing music as an optional add-on to liturgy and make its use mandatory. Abolishing said services might be as good a start as any.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35539648.post-89457050510662536222008-04-16T19:56:00.000+01:002008-04-16T19:56:00.000+01:00Volpius, the choir were happy to sing it. This par...Volpius, the choir were happy to sing it. This parish is like any other and has a wide range of opinion. It is difficult for older people who feel that Latin is something they`ve left behind and who made the mental leap to stay on board when all was changing to think that maybe too much was jettisoned. I think with younger people there is less historical baggage involved.Fr Michael Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15320336535138538635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35539648.post-34981545651930846422008-04-16T17:41:00.000+01:002008-04-16T17:41:00.000+01:00"I tried to introduce some chant here at Forest Ha..."I tried to introduce some chant here at Forest Hall at the 10.30 Mass but it would be wrong to say that it was enthusiastically received."<BR/><BR/>What is wrong with Catholics these days?<BR/><BR/>Even people with no religious belief's love chant for crying out loud, that is why you can find chant cds for sale in HMV but you won't find any cd's with the new cheesy hymns for sale because quite simply it is dreadful.<BR/><BR/>Do you think Father it is simply laziness on the part of the choir?<BR/><BR/>I'm starting to get the feeling you are wasted in that parish.Volpius Leoniushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10273209983337706262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35539648.post-11681952341604939162008-04-16T15:15:00.000+01:002008-04-16T15:15:00.000+01:00This is beautifully written and not inflammatory. ...This is beautifully written and not inflammatory. This would be a good time to bring out the vielles, sackbuts & douçaines (quiet shawms).Aagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100849635200015014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35539648.post-61685232067611805152008-04-16T12:16:00.000+01:002008-04-16T12:16:00.000+01:00I do like Gregorian chant. Mozart too. And, schism...I do like Gregorian chant. Mozart too. And, schismatic or not, the Wesley brothers knew how to write music that a congregation can join in with! As a general rule, if its not chant, music is acceptable if it comes with a) a full orchestra, or b) a very big organ.<BR/><BR/>...not to sound too partisan...Augustinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02874922973165634505noreply@blogger.com